Quote on Otherness
I'm reading a book right now about character. Yesterday i came across a line that said something CLOSE to the following... sorry i don't have the book on hand.When we make the salvation of our own souls into our life's pursuit, aren't we just spiritualizing an existence that is essentially self-seeking?
I've written about this concept before, but this said it to me in a new way. Being self-seeking is always wrong (because it is NOT loving) but we often think that if we are self-seeking in "spiritual ways" that it's okay. I'm not sure that it is.
It seems to me that the most biblical form of spirituality has loving God and loving people as it's goal... NOT the love of self, the preservation of self, or even the gain of eternity for self!
I'm not saying it's wrong to be wise enough to know that we need to be saved by God, but if that's our life's goal then it looks like maybe we're on the wrong journey, at least not the one Jesus described in the Gospels.
This one could be touchy, but what do you think?
posted by Dion @ 5/29/2007 10:19:00 AM
6 Comments
6 Comments:
I completely agree that this can be touchy. Isn't that because of our selfish sinful nature? We somehow want the focus to be on us.
I guess I wonder how you approach this in a culture that seems to be centered around self gratification (even when it comes to helping others it seems to be about how it makes me feel) how do we have this conversation?
The last couple times I entered this conversation I got my head bit off and was told they didn't believe me on the idea of doing things not because they make me feel good (like helping others). That people just can't be that way.
maybe it's because we don't respond to obedience anymore? We can't imagine doing something because someone we respect tells us to. Though the neat thing about God is that when you do it his way, it often does feel good, or you find a deep sense or purpose or "rightness", but if that's all we're after, then our motivations are wrong.
motivation really does count for a lot, and though my motives aren't always pure, i try to do the right thing and ask God to remake my motivation in the process, to be less about me and more about him.
re: the question of how to have this conversation, i guess you have to start with those who have been reborn of a different world and mindset. I can't expect a guy on the street to think this way, but i can expect baptized people who are having their minds, hearts, lives transformed by God. thanks for posting.
Could part of the problem be that we sometimes equate all things remotely spiritual as "pursuing our salvation"? It's hard to argue placing salvation as #1, but we also depend on God to give the faith.
Presumably "pursuing salvation" would be a purpose soley for the preChristian, right? We Christians already have it, thanks to Jesus' unselfish love.
Once God has given us faith and salvation, he does want us to be secure in that by existing as a new person in Him. BUT that's not pursuing salvation - it's "just" being faithful to the life He's given us, and to Him as the giver. He's given us the fellowship of other believers, the sacraments, His Word, and the presence of His Spirit to support us and secure us in our faith. What more should we pursue?
If one then continues to pour the majority of one's time and resources and passion into the ongoing faith journey of one's self, and even one's own already saved family, valuing our own nurture more highly than the salvation of others - that does not seem to fit with God's priorities.
It seems like this is where the self-centeredness comes in, whether it shows itself in prioritizing our personal time, or ministry time and resources, or even the attitude of our hearts.
It seems to me that there is no excuse for Christians or the Body of Christ to care less for the most important thing, salvation, for their neighbors than for themselves. That's just plain rejection of the second half of the great commandment, and a rejection of the God who gave it.
Isn't God's goal to save as many as possible - including us, but not especially us?! How could we be so uncaring about God's heart as to be lukewarm about the salvation of others!? Sounds like idolatry to me.
In loving others, God instructs us to love our neighbor AS we do ourselves - doesn't that mean serving/sharing with/valuing our neighbor, especially his/her salvation, equally with our own? Isn't that the example Jesus gives us - placing the salvation of others ahead of His own life?
So maybe the question could be more boldly stated as asking if it's self-centered to value our own maximum spiritual maturity more highly than the spiritual rescue of our many thousands of neighbors who are now dead and whom God desires to live, just as we now live.
I think the question is much easier to answer if we see real faces of real people we deeply care about - which means people we really love as God commands, rather than piously giving lip service to a general concept that God intended to be deeply personal for all of us.
I am not sure pursuing our own salvation is wrong if we are moving with the will of God. If it just for the sake of getting to Heaven(fire insurance) or feeling good, then I would question why someone is following Christ in the first place. Pursuing our own Salvation is not about us, it is about God's will. Philippians 2:12-13 says "12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. God is working in us and through us as we work out our salvation. Is it because he wants us to feel good or just make sure we get into Heaven? No, it is so that His will is accomplished. His will is that none should perish and that all should come to repentance. Salvation has not come to us so that we can just sit and wait for Jesus to take us home. Salvation is given so that the world might be restored. We are saved and therefore become or should be God's restorative agents. We are saved through the blood of the Lamb and have experienced God's extravagant love. How can we keep that to ourselves?
I like the emphasis on the will of God and the distinction about "fire insurance" Patti. This does well to state the problem in clearer language, thank you.
What we see as salvation is often an escape from death... "fire insurance"... but when God saves us he not only rescues us from death but he brings us into the wholeness of true life. In my understanding, salvation isn't being spared from suffering, but it's also being spared from self, emptiness, and filled with the purposes of God... we're talking about the Hebrew concept of Shalom... completeness, wholeness, abundance.
Maybe we need to start talking about what we're saved FOR and not just saved FROM This would give a more complete picture of what Salvation means to God.
Great input, thanks!
Adding a bit to the concept of being "saved from ourselves", I think it was the great philosopher (and Sunday comic character) Pogo who said, "We have met the enemy and he is us!"
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